The Imposter Podcast AU
Join former first responder and army veteran Burso as he plunges into the human psyche with insightful discussions on imposter syndrome and how it affects every aspect of our lives. Using personal stories and expert advice, he uncovers the secrets to overcoming feelings of inadequacy and stepping into your authentic self.
From boardrooms to crime scenes, the Imposters explore guests real-life stories of triumph and struggle, shedding light on how imposter syndrome impacts career advancement and personal fulfilment.
Whether you're a first responder, veteran, CEO, mother or student, this podcast will empower you to silence your inner critic and thrive in every endeavour.
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The Imposter Podcast AU
#46 World War Bloody Timor - From Boots to Books: The Pete O'Hanlon Episode
Ever wondered how a young man with little direction can transform into a seasoned military professional? Join us as we sit down with Peter Hanlon, an ex-army infantryman whose compelling journey takes us from his family's military roots to the front lines in East Timor. You'll hear Peter share candid anecdotes from his training at Kapooka and Singleton camps and his first posting to 2RAR in Townsville. From the camaraderie among soldiers to the lighter moments that defined his early military career, Peter's story is a testament to resilience and the bonds formed in service.
Peter opens up about his life beyond the military, detailing the challenges and personal struggles following his transition to civilian life. Despite aspirations for deployments to Afghanistan or Iraq, Peter found himself grappling with dissatisfaction and anxiety, ultimately deciding to leave the service. His journey to find a new sense of purpose is marked by extreme physical challenges and a relentless search for meaning, providing a raw and relatable look at the psychological impact of military service.
Finally, we explore the unbreakable bonds and humor that often accompany military life. From unforgettable pranks to shared moments of laughter, Peter's memories illustrate the importance of camaraderie in overcoming adversity. We also discuss the intense experiences that shape a soldier's mindset, reflecting on the stark differences between military training and civilian life. This episode offers a holistic and relatable view of military life, capturing the everyday experiences that define those who serve.
Matty Morris of https://www.zerolimitspodcast.com/ helps us out with a banger of a tune. If you want to hear about some real intense moments from Veterans and First Responders. Check out Zero Limits Podcast.
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another rock show. So is there intro tune pretty we have. We paid big bucks for it, so we're it's pretty yeah came free with the machine yeah, actually did right.
Burso:Okay, well, here we are, welcome back. Um, I don't know why I do that Sometimes I just like I hear it on the radio and then I'm like let's start with it. Anyway, whatever, it's a rock show, let's do it. We've got Peter Hanlon today. Very exciting time. No, not yet. We're not In a minute. In a minute he's a ex-army lad. He's currently pretending to be. Oh, we learned what our current thing is. See how the conversation goes.
Pete O'Hanlon:Maybe we need some more material.
Burso:If we're clutching straws, we'll go to what you're doing currently. He's been a military advisor on movies. He's been an extra. He's in Kane. He's also dealt a little bit as a producer. We'll get into that as well, obviously, yeah, but started off as infantry. But anyway, peter Hanlon, beautiful. I don't know how long it goes for, so I'll cut it away, but yep, cool mate. Well, do you want to run through from the start? Yeah, joined up. Why?
Pete O'Hanlon:Thanks for having me guys Joined up. The old old man pretty much pushed it our whole lives. He was a, uh, he was an artillery sergeant. Uh, grandfather served, grandma served, uh, uncles and stuff served. And then, um, my brother signed up before me. He's two years older. He signed up to uh transport and then, um, you know I saw him succeeding. You know he had a, he had a missus at the time and, uh, he had a little patch house and nice little cozy thing and getting all this money took me out shopping one day one time and showed me all his money and all the stuff he could buy and I was like that's pretty awesome I like the way as, as a young fellow, he's like like, oh, you know, there's a strong tradition in our family this and that Bought an HSV, so I was like that's me Pretty much.
Pete O'Hanlon:he had an HSV.
Fitzy:So I was like that's pretty cool.
Burso:When did you join?
Pete O'Hanlon:up what year? July 97.
Burso:Okay, yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:So a while ago now.
Burso:Yeah, when did you start 50. Sorry, 50 is here as well. Everyone Fresh off his 100K run 99.
Fitzy:I joined.
Burso:We were about the same time. I was December 99, weren't we September 99.? I'm such a jube. We're all old school. Yeah, so did he actually?
Pete O'Hanlon:have an.
Burso:HSV.
Fitzy:Yeah, he did.
Burso:First carry port. Yes, they, yeah, he did stereotypes for a reason. Um, yeah, so your brother came back, he did that and then. So where were you from?
Pete O'Hanlon:like, did you? Where do you have to go to sign up? I grew up in the brisbane area yep, in um northern suburbs place called new market um, where I went to school and everything there, and we were still there, we had a, we had a home there most of growing up and then went into the city and my brother went in there and signed up and I basically signed up thinking that, you know, I was hanging out and not doing the best stuff. Back then I signed up thinking that they weren't going to take me.
Burso:Yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:And they told me at the recruiting centre. They said oh, you know, you're like the third reserve or something. So I was like I just wanted to shut that up, you know, make him happy, think I was doing something with my life.
Burso:Hey, I already signed up for this, all right.
Pete O'Hanlon:Just lay off me, dad, I've done it.
Burso:Yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:Now let me go hang out with my mate.
Burso:The amount of army guys that you're like what were you doing beforehand? Nothing good, it's the same story. What else am I going to do? All right, I'll join the army, I'll go to jail. They're my options.
Pete O'Hanlon:Pretty much that's the way I was kind of heading. Nothing bad, but you know, just a rat bag, just a rat bag, expelled from school and you tall are you. I'm not going to say the stereotype. Checks. Out it varies.
Burso:When you're 6'5 and 130 kilos. People like fighting at that sort of height and weight generally because they win by default.
Fitzy:Initially, when you went to join up, did you know what you were going to do?
Pete O'Hanlon:Well, my dad kept pushing PDI because I was always winning the athletics carnivals and I was always fitness was my kind of my way out, what I thought I was going to be Michael Jordan or something. Oh yeah, I thought I didn't care about school because I was just like I'm so athletic and I'll just become a football player or a basketball star.
Burso:Whatever sport it is, I choose.
Pete O'Hanlon:So academics? I was like no, I don't need that. Yeah, you know so yeah, so yeah, do you play basketball?
Burso:back then.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, I did back then. Right, yeah, and footy, obviously yeah, I played footy, schoolboy footy and stuff like that represented.
Burso:Did you actually put in to try and get ahead that way?
Pete O'Hanlon:No it was just naturally good, but no one back then really pushed you. I wish I had someone back then who pushed me who said well, you're right into this basketball, let's take you to this coach. Or let's take you to this kind of facility and see what you got. See if you can match it with these guys.
Burso:We had this bloke at my high school and he was basically Jordan. To us it was just any time like he carried our high school to state finals. You'd be like, oh, we need a three to win. We're down by two. Everybody in that whole facility knew we were giving it to Phil and regardless they put five on him. You'd throw the ball just up in the air because you had too many people on it. He'd grab it, just fade away, bang it's in and he'd just be like that was it? That's as excited as he got, because he was like I knew I was going to win Great. Never saw him play past high school. But then he even left. So Jordan went to baseball. He stopped playing basketball, went and played baseball. The amount of trophies he's got from baseball.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah.
Burso:Went back to basketball. Because Jordan went back to basketball Like at no point was any sport, he wasn't the best at Crazy. But I don't think, I just I feel like when that happens, you don't, it doesn't mean anything to her, and then you just don't put in, so like if you were killing it at everything and nobody's like hey, mate, whatever, especially if you're not challenged.
Pete O'Hanlon:Well, I don't know if I was killing. I was killing it from my perspective.
Fitzy:I was winning a few races here and there I was putting up a few points, you know.
Pete O'Hanlon:But yeah, killing it. If, if I'd actually been put into some sort of competitive competition where it's elite level, I might have got my ass handed to me. Yeah, and that would have. That would have been a big wake-up call as well. Yeah, do you reckon that would have made you?
Burso:put in extra.
Pete O'Hanlon:I think so. I think back then I would have, but then I saw the opportunity through the military to do it. So I thought the military was a good stepping stone into some sort of career, because they could see that sports ability or whatever. Yeah, and then let them do the legwork rather than me trying to do it. You've seen the rugby boys? Yeah, yeah, yeah. They had everything handed to them.
Burso:Yeah, and they don't have to bring in the army anymore because they're just too busy off playing sport. You don't have to go. Bush, yeah, hey, boss, I don't know if you've seen, but they've got the Super 7s are coming out. I don't know about this bush trip beforehand. You know, boss, do you want us to get up or what? You just need to do some training boss, yeah, I don't need to get injured, I'm trying to stay weight Bush, I'll just do myself in. Yeah, yeah, you just got to pick the right boss.
Fitzy:I was lucky enough to be on a rugby tennis team. Oh, here we go. Went down to Kapuka. They flew us down on a herd.
Burso:There you go.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, there you go yeah, pretty much didn't do bush. Yeah, we had the rugby boys. I think it was sub two corporal or something, yeah, and the bush phase was two weeks and they showed up for one day passed the march out parade and they didn't get the drill right, so I don't know what their story is Right.
Burso:I was just ragging on Just army stories about policing and whatever it is again.
Fitzy:So you went there and you knew you were going to sign up for infantry.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, I thought Dad was pushing PDI, but once I started looking into it I thought infantry suited me best.
Burso:You, can't join as PTI, can you? You've got to go in and then change over. Yeah, I didn't know that. Yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:But yeah, he was pushing become a PDI.
Burso:That was kind of what he wanted. When you went to recruiting, did you ask him about that or was it at that stage? Was it just you went there and you got what you had given?
Pete O'Hanlon:Oh, I had no idea. All I really knew was about infantry and what my brother had told me, kev. He had told me about transport and artillery and stuff like that, and Dad was obviously artillery.
Burso:They asked me questions I had no answers to, so your brother's transported and he told you to go infantry and your dad told you to go PDI.
Pete O'Hanlon:Dad told me PDI, but they both. My brother had a. He went from transport to artillery. So, he transferred to artillery, so they were both artillery fans.
Burso:Yep, and both didn't tell you to go arty Interesting concept.
Pete O'Hanlon:No, I think I kept telling them that's not for me, okay. Like when they talked about it, I wasn't interested in artillery.
Burso:Like.
Pete O'Hanlon:I'm not a bombardier mate.
Burso:Yeah, I like the bombardier. Call for a thing? Yeah, that's great. So, yeah, so you went in. You would have just told them the recruiting people. Hey, this is me, what do you want me to do?
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, Back then they were doing that new trial where it was a six-week course. It was the first time it was gone from three months to a six-week.
Burso:Yeah, Kapuki man.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, kapuki, it was the very first course or something I believe, and I was on that first one, but I can't remember what core it was like an all enlisted corps for something, so no resis or all infantry. No, it was something else. And then they said but there's another one that's infantry, it's all infantry. Yep, but that was the three months. Oh, so they said you're doing the three month line, oh right.
Burso:I thought I'd be out of there in six weeks. Yeah, laughing, they brought in six weeks and they're like but you're not doing that.
Pete O'Hanlon:Well, initially I was but I was going to some I can't remember what corps it was but then they said oh no, we're going to put you in infantry and you'll do three months. And I was like oh, okay, I'll do what I'm told, I guess.
Burso:Yeah, I'll do what I'm told. Did Singo.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, I went and did Singo. How did you enjoy that? Yeah, I didn't mind it. Yeah, I got a lot out of it.
Fitzy:It was a wild time back then, very different times now. Yeah, I know it was a wild west back then. I'm guessing there was a few heat seekers though, on the course.
Pete O'Hanlon:A few heat seekers.
Fitzy:You love those people.
Burso:I just love them. Were you one of them there.
Pete O'Hanlon:No, I was always pretty good, not if you enjoyed his time there? Yeah.
Burso:It's pretty hard to grey man, though, at six foot five.
Pete O'Hanlon:You know I'm not the smartest bloody tool in the shed when it comes to, you know, academics and stuff like that. But I'm always the hardest worker, I think, and I always push the furthest. So you know, I might not get it the quickest, but I'll do it the best. Yeah, you know, and I think that's what got me through a lot of those earlier times at Kapooka and Singleton and places like that. No matter what the instructors or corporals would say, I'd just keep going. Yeah, they'd try and go. You know you're stuffing this up, you're stuffing that up and I'm like right, I'll try again.
Fitzy:I'll try again.
Burso:This guy just doesn't quit. Yeah, which makes a good infantryman. Yeah, I also haven't seen you like you're not a massive smartass. Nah, like you happen to have jokes, but it's not. Nah, there's some dudes. He's just like he needs to get hazed. There's some people he's just like he needs to learn a lesson, Nah I. So you've gone from Singo first time through didn't get any injuries or anything like that.
Pete O'Hanlon:No, I went, yeah, pretty much completed Singo and got posted up to 2RL.
Burso:Yeah, so 2RL was Townsville, townsville, yeah, yeah, is it still Townsville now, do you know?
Pete O'Hanlon:I think so, I think so yeah, oh it's, yeah, it's all Amphib now.
Burso:Yeah, I heard that were amphibians, yeah, amphibians. Cool. So you went up to 2RR. How long were you up there? You went overseas with them.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, so I would have got up to 2RR in. So I joined 97, would have finished by about. I think it was like February 98 that I arrived to 2RR. There was a bunch of us from Singo that arrived there and what was Timor? Timor was 99. So I'd only been there in the battalion a year roughly and then got the first Timor troop. Yeah, it was pretty exciting times.
Fitzy:Really exciting times, wasn't it?
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, it was a very it was actually kicking off. Yeah it was you know we thought we were going to it was World War III, world War, bloody Timor.
Burso:That's what we'll get to later.
Pete O'Hanlon:It's his book, as you're wondering. Yeah, we thought, well, everything we've been told was prepare for the worst, you know? Yeah, um, it was, yeah, it was. It was the biggest thing since vietnam.
Burso:Yeah, basically at back then, you know, but there was a bunch of stuff going on, like we when we flew around after there was nothing zero going on. When I was there there was no worse for me.
Fitzy:I had to wait six weeks for Bikis to come from mum. Yeah, that was the hardest thing. That's fair enough.
Burso:Worst thing that was us was infantry blokes stealing taxis and cruising around. They're like, well, they didn't really steal them. They're like, hey, can you drive us from here to here in a cab? And then they're US, you let me drive it. It was like just dudes ascending scooters over speed bumps and all sorts of stuff.
Pete O'Hanlon:That was the biggest dance you had what year was?
Burso:that I can't remember, Can't remember Allegedly all what happened.
Fitzy:I still remember the news though from 1999. I know that was a big factor in me.
Burso:Was it Banana Boy? There's a dude up in the banana plantation or something and he got shot at by punters when he went off by himself and I think he was just going to the bathroom or something. Oh, heaps was going on back then.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, it was actually Journos got kidnapped and stuff yeah, the journos, yeah, it was pretty full on from what the news was showing and the debriefs and briefs we were getting about what we're going into.
Burso:Yeah, it's crazy how different Timor was for different people.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah.
Burso:For me it was hiding from MPs when you were trying to get like yeah, no, we were getting like fried rice and stuff. We had these massage places and they would like they'd get your grog, they'd do whatever else it was like stand guard out the front and you're like, yeah, good times, that's the most danger we had.
Burso:But yeah, like other times you. But then you'd still fly around, you'd go to these little towns and you'd drop food off to them and you'd see churches that had, like their roof missing and there's bullet holes all through it and you're like, yeah, they just threw everyone in there shot the place up and inverted Shot the place up, but yeah, closed the. But yeah, none of that when I was there, but yeah, that would have been when your time was happening.
Pete O'Hanlon:When we were there, it was still cracking on, like there was still militia roving the streets shooting rounds about was it Renato time Renato Renato can't remember.
Burso:It was like that big dude, yeah, big war warlord or whatever it was. You should probably know his name. They'd got him just before I got there, so it wasn't a big deal when.
Pete O'Hanlon:I went. It was like the 25-year anniversary, the other day.
Burso:Yeah, true, so you went to Team 199. Yeah, I did, did the Interfet trip in 92. Yeah, and how did it differ? Because you went back in 02,. You were saying how did it change then?
Pete O'Hanlon:Well, the 02 mission was under the United Nations so I think it had transferred. So in my first trip with Interfet the UN trip was like the transfer from Interfet to that. So whatever had happened to it, so was.
Burso:Interfet just like an Australian Army-led invasion, basically, yeah it was International Forces East Timor or something.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, it was Australian-led, but I remember walking around and seeing French Foreign Legion. Yeah, like there was New Zealand SAS, there was Australian SAS there was infantry, australian infantry. There was French Foreign Legion, there was US Marines. Us Intelligence were all there.
Burso:I was bumping into everything on those first interfaith days. Yeah, when I was there, we had the Portuguese the Jams. What was that? The Jams? Yeah, we didn't have any of them when I was there.
Fitzy:We drank Carver with them most nights.
Burso:Yeah, it's so funny Different times, such a different environment. Yeah, people are like oh, you went overseas, you must have seen it. I'm like dude, I'm not jumping on that, I didn't. I was like I had a ball of a time. I actually got to stay in the same place for four months and it was good, it was fun. Yeah, the worst thing that happened to me was I'd go online and I'd be like oh, why aren't my friends on Facebook online anymore? Oh, it's Friday.
Fitzy:Yeah.
Burso:It's literally the. And then I'll be like, well cool, I'll just jump back on Call of Duty.
Fitzy:I got flown into Dili for a fun run. Wow yeah.
Burso:I've shot it 50 times.
Pete O'Hanlon:But thanks anyway, guys, yeah, that UN trip in OT was probably the quietest. Yeah, we were still patrolling, we were still doing our role, yeah, but it was pretty quiet. I think everyone was transferring back into East Timor and they'd been kicked out, okay, yeah, so it was kind of that transfer period. So we were doing a lot of pickets and that, a lot of vehicle checkpoints, things like that, you know, clearing vehicles and things like that, just waiting for something to kick off.
Burso:Even that was funny, though, like they were talking about how people all obviously disappeared, run off into the mountains yeah and there's no like deeds or anything, so you just rock up and it's first come, first serve you know you don't. We built this house up, prove it we were.
Pete O'Hanlon:It was just yeah, we were getting a lot of people coming up to us saying, um, that's militia yeah they'll point you into a house and we're going to the house and they'd say, oh no, this used to be their house, but it's ours now, so they want it back, so they want you to kill us so they can have the house.
Burso:How do you even check the papers on that? There is nothing.
Pete O'Hanlon:There's nothing we could do, so you're occupying it. It's your house. No, they come in. After all that happened, they've taken over our house.
Fitzy:You're also there under different rules of engagement.
Pete O'Hanlon:Different rules of engagement.
Fitzy:yeah, Can't fire unless they're firing at you. Yeah, but I mean even lower than that.
Burso:It's just literally. How do you? No one's got papers, no one's got ID, you literally can't. The people you might be talking to might actually be from that house. This story might have been completely true and the other guys might have been like no, no, no, I've been here the whole time. Those guys are militia trying to take my house.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, the amount of locals I had come up to me saying can you kill this dude or kill that dude? They're taking my house. I want it back.
Burso:I remember going to the briefings and they were talking about how much it would cost to get someone, like, put a hit on someone over there it's like 50 bucks. It's crazy.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, and a lot of them too were actually ex-militia who come back to settle back into it and, just, you know, reintegrate and adapt. And then others were like, oh, hang on, you killed my cousin, what are you doing?
Burso:Ain't no amnesty here, mate, you shot 50 of my mates. Yeah, what?
Fitzy:are you doing? Yeah, but that was like two weeks ago, mate.
Burso:Yeah, that was before it's a new rule now and I live here now, so I'm a different dude. Like it's not a big deal, Killed your cousin and took your house. Come on, yeah, we can't undo it, mate, let's just turn the other cheek. So Timor 02. And then after that, you went to 6 RIA. Did you just move on from 2, or was that part of it, because you became a sergeant at some point?
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, no, I got back from the O2 trip just looking for something a bit different. I'd been in 2 since what? 98? Yeah, a lot of the section and a lot of the boys I'd kind of been there with on those initial times, kind of moved on and then got out or went to other units, went to other postings, you know, promoted, posted out, and here I was still in Charlie Company as probably a senior digger at that stage. Yeah, having new lance jacks coming from a different company and I'm like, well, why aren't I getting promoted? Yeah, you know what's going on here.
Burso:Sounds like we never asked yeah, never showed any interest. Hang on, hang on.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah. So yeah, I was kind of a bit. Maybe I should get posted out. It'll push along the promotions a bit quicker. You know, once you've got that first posting, everyone's like oh good, you've been around. So yeah, I looked for a posting to 6RR. Family was from Brisbane, so I thought I'll go back to Brizzy 6RR and yeah, I got it.
Burso:Yeah, Went back to Brizzy and I was wondering if it was going to be more of a location thing that you wanted or if it was a career thing.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, I think the location made me choose the 6RR. I'd always grown up, you know, around that anagra base. It was kind of like that was when I was growing up. Military was anagra for some reason. I know what I associated military with, so I'd always want to you know, follow dad's footsteps. He was anagra, my uncle was anagra, so I was like, oh anagra cool.
Burso:It's funny, do you? Did you meet many victorians when you were in? Oh, probably. Well, the funny thing I find is it's very rare that I've seen Victorians join the military, especially the army and stuff. They're more. I find a lot more now when I work with them. It's Navy and potentially Air Force, but that's yeah. Cerberus is down here, yeah, so that's like the only or. If the Victorians are here, they're not city, they're regional.
Fitzy:We don't have the associations like we do in Queensland with bases and that stuff, we don't really have it.
Burso:So, like Brisbane has Enoggera, townsville has Lavarack, sydney obviously has Holdsworthy and you've got the Air Force one there, wa's SAS, adelaide has, I think they have Air Force and well, they actually have all three of them now down there. But yeah, melbourne's just not an army town, yeah, right, so it's just funny that you don't see. Then, yeah, because Darwin boys, they get around the base as well up there.
Pete O'Hanlon:Well, that's it. If you live in those areas, you grow up as a kid and you know you're in like Newmarket, where I said where I grew up is not that far from Enoggera. Yeah, they're verbs. So seeing the army guys knock off work and going home and on their bikes and stuff, I've seen all that growing up all the time, so it was always an ogre.
Burso:It was always funny when I was in town and you'd see people just riding their biking cams with boots and just riding I mean most of the time getting flack because of the bindis everywhere. And you're seeing where they're the big green tires on. They've got no tubes in them anymore. They're like no tubes are done, can't do tubes in this stupid place. But yeah, you can't even wear your uniform and stuff. But I just love watching the boys try and ride home in the heat with their boots on and everything Good on them. So how long were you there for?
Pete O'Hanlon:I wasn't there that long. There was an opportunity. The CSM came up to me and said there's an opportunity for an instructional posting down at Warbury-Wodonga Yep. At that point in my career I'd say or whatever it is, were you school of life, it was like a mill skills thing. So they were doing all their IET training down there, coming from Kapuka, yep, and their IT courses were. I think it was months in between, but they were just sitting there so they were losing those Kapuka skills, yep.
Pete O'Hanlon:While they were waiting, so they needed the mill skills.
Burso:our team down there Kapuka skills.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, Kapuka skills.
Burso:Then we're just running around like, okay, we need to keep them scared, pete, we need to keep them scared mate.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, so they created this infantry det down there and a few of us, yeah, the CSM come up to me and well, no, actually it was at the Boozer and he said you know, there's an instructional place and most of the guys kind of shy away from that sort of thing.
Pete O'Hanlon:They don't want to get out of the battalion because it's comfortable when I wanted to get out and try and test myself in a different area and I'd been in you know companies for four or five years and it was. And I was on companies for four or five years and I wanted promotion. That was kind of my goal, yeah, and it was guaranteed two stripes, I think.
Burso:Also, I find a lot of things people learn is like through teaching you learn so much more.
Pete O'Hanlon:I come back to the battalions, and I was head and shoulders above everyone else. All the other section. Commanders there I just had because I'd been instructing for so many years, so I was teaching myself while I was teaching others. You know the basics.
Burso:A lot of the time you learn through teaching 100% Because you've got to know everything much more. You need to be all over it and all that sort of stuff.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, going from there, and after there I went to Kapuka as an instructor. Oh right, teaching like back in the battalion. I understood the weapon and how to employ the weapon and things like that, but I didn't understand the working parts of the weapon.
Burso:Yeah, Whereas coming from Puka, I can never say no nomenclature.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, I knew the insides and outs of the weapon, why it works this way, why you employ it this way or whatever. So I'd go back there and teach the other section commanders, yeah.
Fitzy:The reason you were taught. This is so that US soldiers can bring the thing to bear.
Burso:rah, rah, rah. Exactly. Next lesson will be with rah, rah, rah. I did enjoy the instructional thing. It was quite amusing. So when did you get out and why I got out? I didn't know that.
Pete O'Hanlon:I didn't know the trip in 06 to Timor.
Fitzy:Okay, yeah, that was with. That's when it started back up again, wasn't it? Didn't we pull out? Yeah, yeah, that's right. We pulled out in 04. Yep.
Pete O'Hanlon:And I think a couple of policemen were shot in the streets.
Burso:There was that shooting that happened.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, yeah, that had kicked off and we went back in there to kind of sort that out and there was that guy running around, that guerrilla guy running around the mountains. That might have been the Rene. Yeah, I think the SAS took care of him. Yeah, they went up there.
Burso:It was funny hearing some of the stories about him, though, like he'd never have a firearm on out in the open because they could get him. Yeah, yeah, he reckons he used to see all the. He'd see the choppers and everyone coming around and like and he'd just wave at them. Yeah, he'd be like, with both hands he'd be like I've got nothing, you can't touch me. I'm pretty sure they took him out, though. Yeah, they got him.
Pete O'Hanlon:I think they found him and got him yeah, but he was likeed up.
Burso:It wasn't an actual hospital, like it was supposed to look like.
Pete O'Hanlon:He had a bit of militia around him.
Burso:Yeah, we Main Street's. When I was there, we went around. All his graffiti was still there. There was heaps of them because we took a wrong turn. We were trying to find a basketball. We're playing basketball on the main streets, obviously, but we went the wrong way down this thing and you could just see them and they're all getting on their phone like, oh, they're coming back. They're coming back and I'm like, geez, there's still a lot of unrest around if you went off the main streets.
Pete O'Hanlon:That 06 trip, like I doing the UN trip, it was pretty quiet. When I went back in 06, it was pretty full on Like I wasn't expecting that it was intense, Like we were constantly QRFing, chasing guys down, constant patrol on night patrols. It was full on where we were. I'm not sure about everyone else, but we had a pretty good time.
Fitzy:We remember talking about it in 04, though we were part of the last attachment over there and we sort of were starting to pull all the choppers back and we were talking about that at the time, saying that this is going to all kick up again soon as we leave. It had that sort of atmosphere where they were just sort of waiting for us to leave and then right, we'll see what happens next. So it was only a matter of time, and when it did kick off again, I think a lot of us expected it.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, that trip. I saw like it was just as intense as the Interfet trip.
Fitzy:Oh really.
Pete O'Hanlon:Different style of intensity. Yeah, A lot of burning buildings, like we'd arrive and there'd be a riot, massive riot, you know and then everything's on fire. There's a couple of dudes hacked up and then you know we'd come in and it would disperse, you know, and then the moment we left, you know it would reignite. We were constantly putting out fires like that. That was our trip just putting out fires, just constantly.
Fitzy:That's hard work too, because you're sort of not really feeling like you're getting to the bottom of anything. You're just putting out fires. Yeah, pretty much.
Burso:It's strange to hear, and that's why I hate talking about Timor like it was nothing, because for me it was, but there was so much. You know, people are finding all those bodies in a well. There's mass graves and stuff. There's all sorts of stuff that was going on over there and I feel bad because none of that happened when.
Fitzy:I was there, but people go, oh you must have seen some stuff in Timor.
Burso:I'm like mate, everybody's trip was different. It was so it's hard to sort of say it's hard to. But even when people go to Afghanistan, they're like oh, you went to Afghanistan. Some dude's like I never left the fence. Yeah, you know like. So it's hard to sort of try and paint everyone with the same brush. So when people ask these questions, you're like well, well, you can't.
Fitzy:I mean looking across your aviation I was. R. What are you trying to say I'd complain if they didn't have like a good dessert on?
Burso:Aviation was just different. Aviation was a combat corps man. I know that.
Fitzy:I used to look. We had 6 RAR over there when I was there in 04. And I just felt sorry for them. I'm like man, they're just getting smashed. They weren't allowed to use. We made a pool. They weren't allowed to use the pool Like oh nah, none of that shit.
Burso:We used to have a detachment over at the APOD or whatever it was we were calling it at the time, and so we used to have to have a certain amount of downtime in between the shifts.
Fitzy:We had to have air conditioning in our accommodation and stuff had to have air con had to Like.
Burso:It's part of the rules for aviation. We are still a combat corps, then let's not shy away from it.
Fitzy:My room was two metres away from like. They had like three bunk bed things.
Burso:Yeah, in a hut.
Pete O'Hanlon:In a hut, and here's me walking into this air con thing and looking across like Experiences may vary. Don't kill me guys. We know that. We know that. You know, in infantry it is what it is. You are the lowest.
Burso:Like you're expendable, we're expendable, we are.
Pete O'Hanlon:We are that tool.
Burso:Like oh, we lost another Pete, let's get another one here. We all did feel bad, though, because we were like I'm doing nothing.
Fitzy:I'm doing nothing here.
Burso:And the other thing that was funny was like they didn't integrate with us as well. So like no, we hated you no.
Burso:We hated you, but it was funny because you had a couple of them that were like, nah, we're embracing the holiday that we use Because they'd be with us for like two weeks. But we had like a big projector screen going on under these huge fans and stuff. We were like, hey, lads, come and hang out, nah, Nah. But some of them would be like, nah, screw that, we're doing it, and they'd come over and they'd watch TV with us.
Pete O'Hanlon:Other dudes would go use the and do whatever, and they're like oh, don't snitch on us. I'd say to white blokes yeah, you can go and jump in the pool or get in the air con, but we're going bush in two weeks, yeah.
Fitzy:So you want to go from that to bush or you want to stay out bush.
Pete O'Hanlon:And they'd be like oh yeah, no worries, saj, we'll stay out. Bush.
Burso:Yeah, but that's what's funny about it, it's me done.
Pete O'Hanlon:I've changed the course. I'm not doing this anymore. Yeah, they realize how bad they've got it.
Burso:Yeah, well, because we'd be at the mess, we'd be having lunch or whatever, and you'd see like one of them looking around. You'd be waiting for the other boys to go mm-hmm and you're free. You're good to go.
Pete O'Hanlon:No, and part of what you're saying before was the reason I wrote the book. I think Timor hasn't had its story really told. Yep, there's so many people who served over there and who have that as a big part of their military service. I think it should be spoken about.
Burso:And mine's only one perspective. It'd be even just if we had, like a tradie me, an engineer and an infantry bloke on the same deployment, and you wrote about your four months there not even remotely similar.
Fitzy:That's what I was thinking before, when you were saying that nothing happened when you were over there. Yeah, shit was going on when you were there. You weren't anywhere near it.
Burso:No, I flew over all of it. I saw all of it. What are you talking about?
Fitzy:I was on Overwatch mate.
Burso:Everyone behaved when I flew around. Death from above. Now was that mortars? Someone's going to lose their mind over that, yeah. So 06 kicked off again. Did you go off? Did you at least have a peace time one again after that? Did you go? Did you at least have a peace time one again after that? What's that sorry. So after 06, did you go back again?
Pete O'Hanlon:or no, that was it. I come back. I got promoted at the end of my 06 trip to sergeant come back to.
Burso:got posted to 1RL Went back to town, so you went yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:I went back to town.
Burso:Oh, you did go back.
Pete O'Hanlon:I was hoping at that stage get an Afghan or Iraq trip. Yeah, that was kind of where I wanted my-.
Burso:Had it started at that point.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, that's kind of where.
Pete O'Hanlon:I needed my career to go, yeah. But I got back to 1RR and I got put into I think it was Charlie Company who were pre-deployment training for six months in Timor. Yeah, oh. So I was going there. I literally had two weeks. So I got back two weeks and then I was going back for six months. At that stage the marriage wasn't that healthy, yeah. So I went up and asked the RSM and CI. I said, sirs, I need to go to Afghanistan or something. I don't want to go to Timor. And they said, well, suck it up, irish, you've got to go. And I said, oh no, I don't. And then I said I'll put in my D and they were like, all righty, I can do that and I just don't understand that mentality.
Burso:It's just one of those. We do this, the boys try and do this thing. It's like when someone's like oh yeah, and then this happens he's like it's just an awkward savvy moment. It'd probably be better if I just had a sound effect for Savvy. Savvy 16% off 17.
Fitzy:Come on mate 17%.
Burso:Yep, you going to go Berry? Yeah, you've got to open it in the thing. What do you mean?
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, in the mic.
Burso:Yeah, yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:Oh.
Burso:Oh, that was good.
Pete O'Hanlon:Big paint.
Burso:That. Oh, that's because, big pete, that was a solid crack. What flavor have you got? He's running berry. Oh, good, good, that was a solid slurf. I love that's the berry. Well done, yeah, yeah, so sorry. So the marriage wasn't great, right? Um, is that fixed? That's, that's't it? No, that's a long time. Oh wait, I think we divorced or something. Yeah, right, oh, there's your, there's your it's up.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yep, oh, yeah, played that game, but that was, that was his own nightmare starting back then, because then it was like a war, just fighting that bloody thing yeah, it was terrible, terrible, yep.
Burso:Did you do the same thing as every other infantry bloke? Did you just like, marry a stripper, or Marry, the first Townsville chick I met.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, yeah.
Burso:Yeah, candy or Mystique or Angel or whatever the name at the time. Awkward, so yeah. So then did you put your D in. Then, yeah, you said, go to Timor.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah. They said yeah, you go on to Timor. And I said oh, I don't think I can do it, don't reckon I will, the family situation and I said I've been there three times, I've proven I can do Timor, you know I want to do Gann. Let's go. And no, it wasn't going to happen. I'm sure I would have got there if I stayed in. Yeah, like no doubt, but I just didn.
Burso:That's fair. Yeah, they might have done the old aviation dangle. They kept telling us like, oh, any minute now we're going on the gang boys, any minute now. Yeah, I've still got mates that are still waiting to go on a blackhawk over the gang Mate. Going through a whole new model type and then back to a blackhawk. It's funny and I've talked to other guys and they've done four trips to the gang and I that's the Army for you, Right?
Pete O'Hanlon:So you threw your day in Yep. They're like here, you want to do it and you did Yep.
Burso:And then what did they offer you? Nothing, really. Oh wow, I went over to no.
Pete O'Hanlon:I went over to 2R because they obviously got deployed. So I went over to 2R and ran the mill skills team.
Pete O'Hanlon:Okay, which was really good, yeah, nice, I ran that. They won it Yep. Then they went over to. It was a pretty bad time there for me at the end there because they won it and they were going over to the UK to compete Yep. And I was in my office and I remember a lieutenant come out, knocked on the door and said Irish, well done, I'm training the team up, mate. I can see where this is going.
Fitzy:Well done, I'll be taking it from here.
Pete O'Hanlon:I'll be taking it from here champ.
Fitzy:Oh, really Yep.
Pete O'Hanlon:And I'd been training. I trained him for months.
Fitzy:Yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:I did all the bush with him. I did all the pack marches. I did everything with him. I got them ready, I got them through. They won it and he comes in and I'm going to the UK. You're not.
Burso:Yeah right, let's speed this D up. Let's put that on the.
Pete O'Hanlon:I was having a bit of anxiety and panic attacks, which is not healthy, yeah Cool, so discharge.
Burso:So when did you get out?
Fitzy:Hang on. Can we name, and shame why?
Burso:Oh, the lieutenant yes.
Pete O'Hanlon:Oh, no idea, I never even knew the bloke.
Fitzy:It wasn't like we had a relationship.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, if he knew who I was, he wouldn't have done that.
Fitzy:If he knew who I was.
Pete O'Hanlon:He's like who's this sergeant who's just come over and didn't want to go to Timor?
Burso:Yeah, oh yeah. He doesn't want to go to Timor, he wants to go to the UK. Fuck this guy, I'll fucking take it. Yeah, mate, you've been here for three months now. Maybe just chill out, fuck a lid. It's not hard to get back into the toxic thing, is it Right? So you got out? Did you have a plan before you got out? You just went at this point. I don't care anymore.
Pete O'Hanlon:I had no clue. It's a pretty long run 11 years, 11 years. I would no clue. It's a pretty long run, 11 years, 11 years. Yeah, I would have liked it done longer and, like I say, I think the only things I didn't accomplish I did the Kapuka thing, which was really good. Yeah, yeah, I accomplished everything I wanted 10 years.
Burso:Did you have long service or did you get paid out? No, I got paid out Right? Yeah, you know a disgruntled bloke. When he doesn't even take his long service, he's like no, I'll just take the thing and I'll pay.
Pete O'Hanlon:See you later. No, the only thing I wanted was that Afghan trip.
Burso:Yep, but you would have taken the UK trip. I would have taken the UK trip, yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:Silly not to. It probably worked out for the best because, like I say on the anxiety and stuff, yeah, I didn't want to have that over there either.
Fitzy:So maybe it was a blessing in disguise Yep.
Burso:Yeah, right. So then you got out. You were telling me you were helping a bloke from 1RAR do some hiking thing that you were talking about.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, I had a mate who reached out to me and he ran a company called Experiences Ray Carson. Really good bloke, legend of a guy. He was ex-1RAR, just a weapon this guy's just a weapon. And he reached out to me and he helped me out a lot. He put me, you know I'd just go up there and help him out. He used to run like team corporate stuff, yep. So he'd get all these corporate gigs and then we'd run them through.
Burso:you know, putting up a tent, navigation, gps type stuff, you know Were they just team building activities, or was it more just like, hey, come be a soldier for a day.
Pete O'Hanlon:It was more team building because of the liability and stuff. There's only certain things you can really do with them.
Burso:Yeah, you could hose them down at 3 in the morning.
Pete O'Hanlon:You can't hose them down at 3 in the morning.
Burso:Which is funny because there's a new crew out. I'm going to try and get them on, but they're doing that I was going to say why can't? You I think, if I don't think BHP's.
Fitzy:Because they'll get cold.
Burso:Yeah, but I don't think BHP's able to actually just put you through an actual sort of scenario, whereas if you sign up for something, it's a bit hey guys, on Thursday we're just going to go down and do this thing. Oh, is it table tennis? Yeah, something shh, get on the ground you maggot. Like oh, I didn't sign up for this.
Pete O'Hanlon:That was a big wake-up call from the army because, like I'd say to them, am I right, you've got to go 600 metres in the bush there, your checkpoint's out there. And they'd be like, no, not today. And then they'd go and sit down in the shade and Ray would look at me just starting to rage and he'd be like Irish R, irish, rage and rage. He can sit in the shade if he wants and I'll be like, oh no, worries, all right. So he was looking at you like settle.
Burso:Yeah, I thought you meant he was cracking at the boys.
Pete O'Hanlon:No, no, I think every military bike that goes out has the same sort of thing.
Fitzy:People just don't do it.
Pete O'Hanlon:I'd just gotten out as a platoon sergeant. I'd been army for 11 years and I to adapt to that mentality. Yeah, I don't want to walk through the bush, I want to sit down in the shade.
Burso:Yeah, I am man. I joined the police academy straight away. I was like, oh yeah, stop going jack on your mates. And they looked at me funny. So what do you mean? How do people not know what going jack means? It's like that was a rude way. I'm like we're miles off, they're not opening doors from each other. I'm like how do people not know teamwork? And then it's when you realise the army taught you stuff.
Pete O'Hanlon:Same with the movie industry.
Burso:We'll get into that.
Pete O'Hanlon:But the movie industry is similar.
Burso:Yeah, oh, there's a mad pecking order. Yeah, I mean I'm assuming I haven't seen too far up it. I'm assuming it gets better the higher you go. But I've shit part and it's yeah, it's very similar. Yeah, um, right, so you were, you're doing that. You said that went for like seven or eight years, you were doing that, yeah it was you painted off like it was a two-month thing when I spoke to you before.
Pete O'Hanlon:It's like almost the same amount of time. Yeah, it was. It was decent, but I wasn't doing it every day type thing. It was just okay. I know you know here and there, but during this weekend sort of stuff.
Fitzy:Well, yeah, kind of here and there, but during that time as well, just weekend sort of stuff, yeah, kind of like that.
Pete O'Hanlon:But just during that same time as well, I'll do my own kind of crazy stuff to keep me kind of motivated.
Burso:Because you were saying you were posting a lot of stuff on socials and stuff to try and show that when you get out you can be. Yeah, I don't know, you don't have to just sit at home.
Pete O'Hanlon:Like I was trying to tell other people that you know, I was trying to say you know you're not a victim and stuff like this. But I think I was doing it. I think I was doing it more for myself.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, tell yourself that yeah, I think I was the one trying to heal myself, but telling everyone else how to do it, yeah, but in the same thing it was helping me, yeah, yeah. So I'd get all excited and I'd go all right, I'm going to get these veterans up and I'm going to get them excited. I'm going to do 50 Ks without water or food, through the bush and then I'm going to swim out 600 metres and you know, just try and do whatever I can.
Burso:Which is funny, because you never would have done that in the army. Never, because that would have been dumb Never. Let's do 50 Ks with no food or water, and then I'm going to swim without knowing how to swim.
Pete O'Hanlon:I had no plan, I just thought what's stupid, what sounds or looks cool, and just do that.
Burso:There was no plan to this? Why are you nodding at Fitzy Fitzy's like I heard there's a 50k run on the weekend, I'm going to go do that. It's like 50k.
Fitzy:I'm with him. He's like man. I just I did a hundred. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Burso:Where are we going? Yeah, but you used to take. If you take stuff with you, you take water bottles.
Pete O'Hanlon:I think, it was more it was more of like a how far can I push myself without you know? Because if I had water it would have been easier and I want it to be hard. I don't know if that was punishing myself or something was wrong with me, but I just I missed that purpose, yeah, and that mindset I get that, but I just feel like you could do 50K with water and it's still a mission. No it would have been too easy.
Burso:Back then it's like no, where's the risk? Where's the risk? Yeah, where's the risk? Like if I can't actually do it, I'm not interested in doing it.
Pete O'Hanlon:No, I don't know what's wrong with you, but I wanted to crawl out of there Like. I wanted to get the 48K and crawl back with a broken leg. That was kind of to me saying, oh, that's hard. Yeah, you know, just walking a 50K, that's easy Everyone does that? Do yeah, and I put myself in those situations, which is scary.
Fitzy:Is that something that, when you left the army, that you sort of felt like a piece of you? Yeah?
Pete O'Hanlon:I think so.
Fitzy:Whether you weren't hard anymore.
Pete O'Hanlon:I think I'd lost a certain aspect of myself and I wanted to prove that I didn't get out because I couldn't do it.
Fitzy:Yeah, I didn't go to.
Pete O'Hanlon:Afghanistan, because I couldn't. Yep, yeah, I don't know.
Burso:Oh, completely, yeah. So there's heaps of times where, like I've spoken to people who haven't gone to Afghanistan and they just regret that they never got to test that part themselves.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, you never got to prove it. And I was a bloody good soldier. Like not toot my own horn, I really believed that I was born to be a soldier. You know, I didn't get that to prove that so that was tough.
Burso:I was talking to people who went to Afghanistan and they were like we still didn't get to prove it. A lot of guys that were in SF were like we barely left the border. Then other blokes were like well, it was.
Fitzy:Similar stories to Timor.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, and that's the thing. I don't even know if that would have proven it, if I would have gotten a contact. I don't know if that still would have proven.
Burso:That's the one thing that I've found is a constant between all the boys. Like boys that have been in contacts, they're like oh yeah, but there was bigger contacts.
Fitzy:You know like it goes from. Yeah, we, we can talk about our last guest. It was like now I'm not going to get to finish my deployment.
Burso:Oh mate, oh mate Got blown up and he was just like, oh, my last mission was a failure. I'm like, well, not. Thankfully it wasn't because he was clearing it. He was supposed to be clearing a route from here to here. I was like, well, the thing blew up.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, cleared it Exactly.
Burso:You cleared it. I'm like, maisie, you did get there without getting blown up because you blew up, so that's a mission success, really. But he was like, oh, I'm not going to be able to go upstairs when I get home. I was like, well, that's an interesting thing. It's like I imagine not being able to go upstairs. I'm like, but mate, like he's talking about failing a mission, I was like well not really.
Burso:You got blown up and didn't die and cleared the route. I was like that's ticking, yeah. But yeah, like it's funny, because he um, I just you got the vibe talking to him that he wanted to go back yeah just to go through it and then not, yeah, be blown up.
Burso:So he's like yeah went out on the high as opposed to went out on yeah taking an l, but I was like getting blown up and not dying is a pretty good non l. I would suggest um. But yeah, there's heaps of other people that I've spoken to who um they went to again they got in contacts. They got in contacts, they did whatever, but they were like oh yeah, but the other boys got into this contact, yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:And there's probably guys out there who did get in the contacts and stuff who's like Horace, you probably don't want that, so I'm not trying to, you know.
Burso:I'm not trying to diminish what they've been through. I'm just trying to say I you never want to go through what I went through. But even just in that, saying that they're like oh, you know, you don't want to do what I went through, they're clearly going. No one's done what I've done.
Fitzy:To a part, though a lot of people when you join the military, that is what you want. That is what you want. That's why you joined. I joined as an aircraft. I still wanted my time to be purposeful. I wanted to have a purpose. I didn't want to just go there and do nothing, and I think for an infantry soldier, that's what you want to do.
Pete O'Hanlon:You want to go and fight the good fight. It's hard for people to understand that you want to get shot at, or not so much that you want to go and… In your vicinity Conflicts and things like that.
Fitzy:You train for a reason you want to show what you can do.
Pete O'Hanlon:This is what my life path is. Whether they agree with it or not doesn't matter.
Fitzy:This is what I've chosen as a path. It's a profession and you're good at it. You're all very, very good at it.
Burso:There's those guys talking about footy. You would not train four years and never play a game. Yeah, like that's you know. Just imagine going on footy training every Tuesday, thursday and never getting a game on the weekend.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, and you'd be like that's literally what it is, and how are you ever going to know how good you would have played? Yeah, I mean, you've got to live with that, good or bad. Could you have been the best? Could you have been?
Burso:average and you know, could you have been the best, could you have been average, could you? And and there's and there's the flip side of it, obviously, those guys who have been in contact and stuff, who've never been the same people since, um, you know, so there's that as well, but there's, um, yeah, like I think the the real takeaway is it's like none of us can change what's happened.
Burso:so like if you, if you did there and you got in some shit, like you've got to accept that and then try and work on what you're going to be now, and if you went over there and you didn't get into that stuff and you feel inadequate as a dude, then you need a new purpose anyway. Either way, you both need a new purpose.
Pete O'Hanlon:I think it's hard to, yeah, I think it's an immaturity at that stage of my life. I think now, like I've speaking to other veterans and stuff, you've got guys, I got deployed, yeah. So then I sit back and I go, wow, okay. Well, if I look at it from your perspective, you did a lot longer than.
Fitzy:I did so you know that's all part of it, though, isn't it? I mean, when you look at your military career, how young, Everyone's so young you don't know shit about shit.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, but you think, you do, you think, you do, you think you know it all, and that's part and parcel of being bulletproof, yep.
Burso:Even if you look at when we went, like you went 9902. Yep, when are you 04? 04. Like I was 07, 08, 08, 09. Like we had traffic lights, we had resorts and stuff going up when I was there. They wouldn't have that when you were there.
Fitzy:No, and it's like so like it's just so different.
Burso:So even though you went there like I'd be like, oh what, you know, it wasn't like it wasn't 99 when I went. Yeah, so my trip's just like I was just taking the piss.
Fitzy:Yeah.
Burso:Yeah, so my trip to yours is miles under what yours is at when you're looking at an Afghanistan trip like it's all this.
Pete O'Hanlon:That's what I was worried about with the book. I was really concerned about, you know, how people were going to perceive a Timor book with the way I read it. It wasn't about the resorts. It was about what I experienced from the best of my memory.
Fitzy:Yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:And I wasn't sure if everyone was going to go. Well, we'll fucking team all mate Like.
Burso:I can't do that I can't do that.
Pete O'Hanlon:Especially after the Afghanistan and Iraq and all that I was like I wasn't sure I even wanted to do it, to be honest, I mean, the thing is, so many blokes went through Timor, we would have had more people go through Timor than Afghanistan, surely?
Burso:Because I because I know we deployed pretty heavily in Afghanistan, but we were in Timor for ages as well. But I just wonder because it's funny though, because there's stories, there's a lot of funny shit that happens in the army and I don't think we portray that anywhere near enough, Like everyone's like yeah, I'm a mad war dog.
Burso:We went in, we got Osama we did this, we did that and you're like, yeah, but when I get out and I talk to my mates, I don't talk about that. I talk about this time that some dickhead couldn't get a bloody hose off and he ended up getting whacked in the nuts when the fire hose went off or when we all got sprayed at that time.
Burso:Or you do the CS gas and then you put your shit in the dryer just to screw over an O-server because you had a shit time. All that stuff is hilarious to me. Or someone goes on, leave and you fill the carpet with grass, seeds and stuff, so by the time they come back, they've got a lawn and then you've mowed it.
Pete O'Hanlon:because they came back later when I was writing it, I couldn't fill a book full of worries about bloody Timor. Not much really happened.
Burso:There's only so many scorpions you can find and get to fight each other.
Pete O'Hanlon:I had to fill the book with other stuff and I. What's the thing that we always talk about were the laughs and the good times and the times you know we went through together and I thought, well, I'll put it in the book from a digger's perspective.
Burso:Yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:And I'll put exactly what. You know how it went down, regardless if it's politically correct or not.
Burso:Well, I'd like to think it wasn't.
Pete O'Hanlon:Most diggers went through. Those are the times that we all talk about when we're having a beer at the RSL.
Burso:We played this game, tape Face, which is about as in-depth as it sounds. We just had black electrical tape. Because you're like, shut up, you guys keep fucking around doing this and doing that and you're like, yeah, righto, so we're doing like charades, basically, but with tape. So you had to like draw, you cut all the tape and just painted your face with it so you could be like, well, mine was mario and luigi. We were like so you put a little l and an m on your head and you do big eyebrows, you have big mustaches and obviously hitler's an easy one to do, just a little one. But like we were getting in depth, people made like hats and stuff. They were going crazy.
Burso:I mean sure taxpayers would be upset with the amount of tape we went through, but considering Fitzy would have smashed a, dropped his screwdriver in a bloody engine, it would have cost $250 million. It's not as big a deal. You know, electrical tape, whatever. But that was tape face is one of the best things. One bloke was like riding the morale of the Talisman Sabre. It's like just level went down a bit a couple of times, got back to level, then tape face, it went rock and then up, then went back down again. We still talk about tape face. Some of the boys are trying to find the photos of it now. There's like people had photos at the time. It was great, but like that I couldn't tell you what else happened on that trip because the rest of it was boring.
Pete O'Hanlon:It's interesting that we remember those moments. You know, yeah, Kind of what got us through, I think those bonds.
Burso:I remember we did another one where we were doing like this you know, like when they just keep you awake for just the sake of it, they're just like oh, we're doing sleep deprivation, oh, that sounds like something beneficial, sure. So we just started doing that. I remember, like probably two and a half days into it and at some point I'd realized that they didn't give a shit that we were digging. They just wanted to hear the noise to make sure you're awake. So we just took it in terms of, oh, you can hide that, bush, I'm just going to go tink, tink, tink. So we were doing that. We were like all right, we've worked this plan out, we're going to work as a team and do whatever this other dude just launched. Just saw this thing flying, oh what? And he's like that's it, I'm going home. He's like got up, just starts walking. We're in like the middle of nowhere. We're like in Israel, somewhere. We're like mate, where do you think you're going? He just lost it.
Burso:Two and a half days he lost it, lost it and then, yeah, that's my limit, yeah, yeah he's, that's me done. I don't care, awol me, I'm out of here. And yeah, like the chorus spoke to him Like they weren't polite to him at the time. But then when he was like cool, we'll, let's fight then, and then it changed and they were like all right, let's have a chat, let's go over here and talk, because it's not because we were just yelling at you and then you didn't change your mind.
Pete O'Hanlon:We I've seen a dude do that just throw the dummy and start walking off. And a CSM went at him, started throwing punches.
Fitzy:Yeah, he threw punches at the CSM no the.
Pete O'Hanlon:CSM threw punches at him.
Fitzy:That makes more sense, yeah, that tracks.
Burso:Poor digger, his whole life just evaporated before his eyes it's just like there's so many times when you're about to spit it and crack it and then when someone else does, it's like it's the valve for everybody. You're like there's 30 of you out there going, I'm going to smash this ET through my face in a minute. I just don't want to be alive anymore, I'm done. And then someone else does it and you're like, oh mate, can't handle it. You know, farewell, 20 minutes. That was you, you. Oh well, 20 minutes, that was you.
Burso:You were just behind him, yeah, and everybody's like, ah, look at the kid, he's doing this and doing that, and you've got another day and a half now. And then you're like, oh, someone else is going to have to spit it in a minute.
Pete O'Hanlon:That's funny. The mentality, though like I saw them as such weak people when they broke. Yeah, the way I looked at them was, I don't know. I looked down on them. Yeah, I don't know why. I just looked at them as weak and you can't do it, yeah, yeah, it's probably not the best way to look at them.
Burso:No, and then you're left with anxiety and stuff. It's all relative. Yeah, I showed them.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, I showed them. They've got three degrees and they live in the high life, and there's us just rocking in the corner going, yeah, they couldn't break me, yeah.
Fitzy:I'm with you. I think I'm probably guilty of that as well.
Pete O'Hanlon:I think we all are at some time You'd be like mate.
Burso:I left Kapooka and I remember walking through and this is Kapooka. Like we've just done, I'm nothing, but in my eyes, what hallway, by the way, 16.
Pete O'Hanlon:No, not you 32. I think Hallway 32?
Fitzy:Yeah, but when I went, back what were you looking for?
Pete O'Hanlon:Four oh, when I went back as an instructor, I instructed on 32 as well.
Fitzy:That'd make it hard to remember which one you were.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, so there's been a few.
Burso:Yeah, I remember just going to the shopping centre and just going. None of your jobs matter. Yeah, you know.
Pete O'Hanlon:I get the same. I'd go through a drive out and I'd drive through and I'd be like, oh, look at you, you scum. Yeah, like, is that all you're capable?
Fitzy:of yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:Like hand me some fries and you got my order wrong. Yeah.
Burso:Come on and you got my order wrong. You don't even have a hard job. If I do my job wrong, people die. It's so funny how much they get in your head, man. I remember going and like I was going in there I was going to get a new t-shirt because obviously I've lost lost 70 of my body weight after I've done my super hardcore 5k march or whatever was we doing the march.
Burso:And, um, I just remember going in somebody's selling their t-shirt. What a waste of a life in here selling t-shirts. Like, yeah, spare me, if you didn't come to work tomorrow, nothing changes. And I was like, well, if I didn't go to work tomorrow, what happens? But I'm like yeah but what if there was a war? Because I'd be the difference. You know like it's just weird how much.
Pete O'Hanlon:But I think that's getting your head. I think that's part of the training it's definitely supposed to be that addicted to it.
Fitzy:This is definitely a point of difference between where you guys went and where I was War was not a thing for us. You're here to fix our business At trade school.
Pete O'Hanlon:No, I was very I don't know what you'd call it very green, institutionalised.
Fitzy:Army was everything.
Pete O'Hanlon:If you weren't as green, if you had your pocket undone or if you had your hands in your pocket, I did not like you.
Burso:Looking now, I get that as well, Only pregnant people cross their arms mate.
Fitzy:And I remember seeing like we went up to what's that village that they've got up in the back of Townsville High.
Pete O'Hanlon:Range, high Range, yeah.
Fitzy:They've got the village that's up there. We went up there just for shits and giggles. You know they give you the guns and the headsets and stuff and shoot lasers and stuff. We were like, yeah, we're going to play laser games, you know. And then we had the I don't know what it was 2RAR or something came up and showing us how to clear rooms, and I remember all of us're like they're fucking good.
Burso:These guys really do this.
Fitzy:We're like wow, we're not playing against them, are we, Like you know? Still a game to us, but they can't play.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, yeah.
Fitzy:Yeah, they were impressive, you know. So, like I understand, the whole mentality. We took it seriously yeah hell yeah, and they were like yeah.
Pete O'Hanlon:That's your whole job, man.
Fitzy:That my life that was yeah, it was my everything. That's how far detached that I was, though from that side of the military. That was sort of I was five years in at that stage and that's the first time I'd ever seen someone doing some military skills where I'm like oh yeah well, oh, we're not just shooting at a target in like the. You know that.
Pete O'Hanlon:That was it for me but even, even for infantry standards, I think I was a bit more than everyone else as well.
Burso:More buy-in than everyone.
Pete O'Hanlon:Yeah, a real believer, a real believer in the system. I remember that, so that's why it was so much harder for me to adapt out.
Burso:Yeah, I remember playing Enemy and just being that rude dude that you just like shoot every now and then, so they'd have to stand to it and wait for them to stand and then go again or whatever, and then I got caught and that was not a good time, yeah you hear the word reorg, and then you fire another shot. Yeah, mate, I got caught by these infantry boys and I may as well have been the enemy Like they did not enjoy it as funny as it was for me all the other times.
Burso:They're like, right, well, now you're wearing every other enemy that was around. They're like, right, this is a stress position. Now I'm holding all these stress positions, I'm like my head's against the wall at some point. I'm like this is really shit. And they're like, yeah, well, you know what's worse, your mum's going to get a letter now that you died. I'm like, oh wow, they're just, they were just into me. Just like, yeah, yeah, well, you're lucky this isn't real, because, because we'd be doing XX, et cetera to you.
Pete O'Hanlon:Was that one hour out? Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, it would have been.
Burso:It would have been one or two.
Pete O'Hanlon:One or two mate, it wasn't two.
Burso:No, well, it's funny too. Townsville was known between one and two, oh massive Two was known as like being the boyfriend material, and one was like no, you don't hang out with one. But it's pretty obvious too, because one was just covered in tribal tattoos when I was there. They were just all running, the old just the massive tribal yeah. You couldn't meet one without tribal. It was a tribal phase, wasn't it?
Fitzy:All the same to us. They all hated us, they all hated us and we beat them at the obstacle course.
Burso:Oh, maybe you tell me about that.
Fitzy:God did that Like caused a stir.
Burso:Yeah, loved it. Right, let's cut it away there and we'll come back and we'll talk books and movies and stuff in the future, unless you've got any other army stuff you want to sign off on.
Pete O'Hanlon:I'm sure what's your book called World War, bloody Timor? World War, bloody Timor.
Fitzy:World War Bloody Timor.
Pete O'Hanlon:Where can we get that World War Bloody Team, or there's a story behind that title too.
Burso:Yeah, well, we'll get into it in a minute.
Fitzy:Where can? We pick the book up.
Pete O'Hanlon:It's mostly online. Now you can pick it up at QBD, a couple of other major bookstores, but I think now it's more ordering it Righto.
Fitzy:I'm looking for a copy Righto. Thanks, Ken.
